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Òåìà: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 18.04.2007 15:54 |
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Åñëè ïèñàòü âñþ êîìàíäó îäíîâðåìåííî, ëàéâ äåìî - êàêîé ìèêðîôîí ëó÷øå âçÿòü èç îêòàâ èë áåðèíäæåðîâ? Çâóê î÷åíü ãðîìêèé, íåáîëüøàÿ êîìíàòà â ñòàðîì äîìå, 7õ3 ìåòðà, ñòåíû è ïîòîëîê áåòîííûå, ïîë äåðåâÿííûé... Åñëè êóïèòü êîíäåíñàòîðíûé ìèêðîôîí - îí íå áóäåò çàõëåáûâàòñÿ? Ïóëüò ó íàñ Áåðèíäæåð 1200-êàêîéòî...... | |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 18.04.2007 18:15 |
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ã.Âëàäèìèð
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ivn, ÷òî âû õîòèòå ñíèìàòü ýòèì ìèêðîôîíîì? | |
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åäð¸íûòü ýò âàì íå èòèòü.
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 09:25 |
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Àíàòîëèé
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ß ïîìíþ ìû íà ðåïû çàïèñûâàëè íà NADY 1050. ß êðóãîâóþ äèàãðàììó ñòàâèë è âñå ïóòåì áûëî! Ïóëüò òîæ áåõðèíãåð áûë. ß íå äóìàþ ÷òî áóäåò îñîáàÿ ðàçíèöà åñëè âû ïîñòàâèòå îêòàâó èëè åùå ÷åíèòü. Çàïèñü âñå ðàâíî áóäåò íå î÷ õîðîøàÿ. Íóæíî ÷òîáû áàëëàíñ èíñòðóìåíòîâ áûë õîðîøî âûñòðîåí è ìèêðîôîí â õîðîøåé òî÷êå ñòîÿë! Íà ñ÷åò çàõëåáûâàòüñÿ, íó ýòî âðÿòëè. ÿ íå äóìàþ ÷òî ó âàñ òàì íà ñòîêî âñå ãðîìêî! À âîò òî ÷òî ñòåíû áåòîííûå ýòî êîíå÷íî õðåíîâà! Êîðî÷å áåðèòå ëþáîé ìèê è â ïóòü! Äëÿ òàêîé çàïèñè íå ñòîëü âàæíî êàêîé ìèê áóäåò èñïîëüçîâàòüñÿ ïîìîéìó!! Õîòÿ ëó÷øå êóïèòå 2 ìèêà!! |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 10:03 |
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Èãðàåì äàâíî, åñòü îïûò ñòóäèéíîé çàïèñè, íî íèêîãäà íå çâó÷àëè òàê, êàê çâó÷èì íà áàçå, åñòü îãðîìíîå æåëàíèå çàïèñàòü ýòó êîìíàòó. Ñòåíû òî áåòîííûå, íî ìîæåò ãåîìåòðèÿ òàêàÿ óäà÷íàÿ.... ìîæåò åùå ÷òî-íèáóäü... ïîìåùåíèå ÷åðäà÷íîå Èãðàåì áàñ, áàðàáàíû, ãèòàðà, âîêàë, - çâó÷èò âñå î÷åíü ïëîòíî! ìîæåò 2 ìèðêîôîíà ïîñîâåòóåòå, áûëî áû ëó÷øå |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 11:11 |
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Ñåâàñòîïîëü 
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çàõëåáûâàòüñÿ - âðÿä ëè, âû æ åãî íå â áî÷êó ñóåòå À òàê, ëó÷øå òàêè âçÿòü ïàðó ìèêðîôîíîâ è ïèñàòü ñòåðåî, à âîò êàêèõ - íàäî ïîíÿòü ïî áþäæåòó, à åùå åñòü âàðèàíò, ìèêðîôîíû âçÿòü â àðåíäó, îñîáåííî åñëè îíè Âàì íå äëÿ ïîñòîÿííîé çàïèñè, à äëÿ åäèíîâðåìåííîé |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZWRxTCIH2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGje6mctCXc https://www.realmusic.ru/albums/32323 |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 13:12 |
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áþäæåò - 2000-4000ð êàêèå õîðîøèå, åñëè 2 ìèêðîôîíà? ÿ òàê ïîíèìàþ îäíà Îêòàâà 219 4000 ñòîèò... ìîæåò 2 Áåðèíäæåðà Ñ-1? Èëè äèíàìè÷åñêèå.....:? ïîìîãèòå îïðåäåëèòñÿ |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 13:48 |
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Ñåâàñòîïîëü
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Äèíàìè÷åñêèå âðÿä ëè ïîäîéäóò, æåëàòåëüíû øèðîêîìåìáðàííûå êîíäåíñàòîðíèêè, îêòàâû â ñòèëå 219 è 319 íà ìîå óõî ãíóñàâÿò, à âîò ñ Ñ1 íå èìåë óäîâîëüñòâèÿ ðàáîòàòü, ùà Àðòåì ïðèäåò, ó íåãî âðîäå åñòü îïûò ñ áåõðàìè | |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZWRxTCIH2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGje6mctCXc https://www.realmusic.ru/albums/32323 |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 13:50 |
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çàðàíåå ñïàñèáî! - áóäó æäàòü îòâåòà | |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 14:04 |
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"ìîæåò 2 Áåðèíäæåðà Ñ-1?" Çàáóäü è íå âñïîìèíàé! Ýòî - ïîëóôàáðèêàò. Ñóïåðíèçêàÿ öåíà ãîâîðèò îáî âñåì. Øèïÿùèé ìèêðîôîí ñ èãðóøå÷íûì çâóêîì. Â-1 ìîæåøü êóïèòü. Èç íåãî ìîæíî ÷òî-òî âûðóëèâàòü. Íî, åñëè òåáå íóæåí êðóã, ýòî òîëüêî Â-2. |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 14:17 |
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ïîíÿòíî òî åñòü Â-2 èëè îêòàâà 219, 319? |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 19.04.2007 16:36 |
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Ó ïåðå÷èñëåííûõ Îêòàâ, òàê æå, íåò êðóãà. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 01:04 |
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Ìîñêâà 
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Áåðèíæåð âàì ñ âàøèì áþäæåòîì äîðîãîâàò áóäåò  ïîýòîìó 2 âàðèàíòà: ïîäíàêîïèòü è êóïèòü ïàðó nady scm1000. ïðè ýòîì âû ñìîæåòå ïîèãðàòüñÿ ñ ðàçíûìè âàðàíòàìè ñúåìà - MS, êîòîðûé äàñò âàì îòëè÷íóþ ôàçó è âîçìîæíîñòü îòêàçàòüñÿ îò ñòåðåî â ïîëüçó ìîíî, çàïèñàííîãî â êðóãå, øèðîêèé AB (c êðóãàìè èëè ñ êàðäèîèäàìè), êîòîðûé äàñò âàì áîëüøåå îùóùåíèå îáúåìà, íî õóæå ôàçó.. ëèáî ïîäêîïèòü ïîìåíüøå è êóïèòü 2 êàðäèîíäûõ ìèêðîôîíà - òóò âûáîð è B1 áåõð, è MXL 2003/2006. ñ íèìè êðîìå ïðîñòîãî ìîíî-âàðèàíòà ìîæíî ïðîáîâàòü À è ÕÓ. î÷åíü ðåêîìåíäóþ ïîïðîáîâàòü êàê-íèáóäü ðàçìåñòèòü ìèêðîôîíû ïîâûøå è íàïðàâèòü âíèç - ïîéìàåòå áîëåå ÷åòêèå àòàêè áàðàáàíîâ.. à òàê - æåëàþ âàì âñÿ÷åñêèõ óñïåõîâ! ÿ ýòî äåëî ëþáëþ è óâàæàþ
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 01:55 |
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Ëåíàð
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íè ### íå ïîíÿë
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 08:42 |
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Ìîñêâà Yamaha,Warwick, Lakland 
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Ìåíÿ âñåãäà èíòåðåñîâàëî à ÷òî òàêîå XY è AB?? Êàêèì îáðàçì íàäî ïîñòàâèòü ìèêðîôîíû ÷òîáû áûëî XY èëè AB? |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 09:17 |
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Ìîñêâà
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Íó, ýòî ðèñîâàòü íàäî... XY - êîãäà ìåìáðàíû äâóõ ìèêðîôîíîâ ( èëè äâóõ êàïñþëåé ñòåðåîìèêðîôîíà) ñòîÿò îäíà íàä äðóãîé ( èëè ðÿäîì î÷åíü áëèçêî) â ðåæèìå êàðäèîèäû è óãîë ìåæäó âåêòîðàìè èõ íàïðàâëåíèé íå ðàâåí íóëþ. ÌS - êîãäà ïëîñêîñòü îäíîé èç ìåìáðàí ñòîèò ïåðïåíäèêóëÿðíî íàïðàâëåíèþ èñòî÷íèêà çâóêà, à ïëîñêîñòü âòîðîé ìåìáðàíû íà îäíîé ïðÿìîé ñ èñòî÷íèêîì çâóêà (òî åñòü ìåìáðàíû îòíîñèòåëüíî äðóã äðóãà ñòîÿò ïåðïåíäèêóëÿðíî), ïðè÷åì ïåðâûé êàïñþëü âêëþ÷åí â ðåæèì êàðäèîèäû, à âòîðîé âêëþ÷åí â ðåæèì "âîñüìåðêè". À - êîãäà ìåìáðàíû ðàçíûõ ìèêðîôîíîâ ( â êàðäèîèäå) ñòîÿò íà Í-íîì ðàññòîÿíèè äðóã îò äðóãà íà îäíîé ïðÿìîé (ÀÂ), íî íàïðàâëåíû ïî ñõîäÿùåìóñÿ óãëó íà îäèí èñòî÷íèê çâóêà, êîòîðûé ðàñïîëîæåí ìåæäó íèìè, (íàïðàâëåííûé ïåðïåíäèêóëÿðíî ÀÂ). |
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åñëè åñòü æåëàíèå ñåðüåçíî ó÷èòüñÿ âîêàëó è ïîëó÷èòü âûñøåå îáðàçîâàíèå âîêàëèñòà - ïèøèòå â ëè÷êó
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 10:55 |
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ñïàñèáî âñåì! à òàêîé ñòåðåî ìèêðîôîí: Audio-Technica Pro24 íèêòî íå èñïîëüçîâàë? |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 10:59 |
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Ìîñêâà
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Íåìíîãî íàðóøèì àâòîðñêîå ïðàâî ________________________ ______ Stereo Microphone Techniques Firstly, what is stereo? The word ‘stereophonic’ in its original meaning it suggests a ‘solid’ sound image and does not specify how many microphones, channels or loudspeakers are to be used. However, it has come to mean two channels and two loudspeakers using as few or as many microphones that are necessary to get a good result. When it works, you should be able to sit in an equilateral triangle with the speakers, listen to a recording of an orchestra and pinpoint where every instrument is in the sound image. (By the way, some people complain that ‘stereophonic’, as a word, combines both Greek and Latin roots. Just as well perhaps, because if it had been exclusively Latin it would have been ‘crassophonic’!) When recording a group of instruments or singers, it is possible to use just two or three microphones to pick up the entire ensemble in stereo, and the results can be very satisfying. There are a number of techniques: • Coincident crossed pair • Near-coincident crossed pair • ORTF • Mercury Living Presence • Decca Tree • Spaced omni • MS • Binaural The coincident crossed pair technique traditionally uses two figure-ofeight microphones angled at 90 degrees pointing to the left and right of the sound stage (and, due to the rear pickup of the figure-of-eight mic, to the left and right of the area where the audience would be also). More practically, two cardioid microphones can be used. They would be angled at 120 degrees were it not for the drop off in high frequency response at this angle in most mics. A 110-degree angle of separation is a reasonable compromise. This system was originally proposed in the 1930s and mathematically inclined audio engineers will claim that this gives perfect reproduction of the original sound field from a standard pair of stereo loudspeakers. However perfect the mathematics look on paper, the results do not bear out the theory. The sound can be good, and you can with effort tell where the instruments are supposed to be in the sound image. The problem is that you just don’t feel like you are in the concert hall, or wherever the recording was made. The fact that human beings do not have coincident ears might have something to do with it. Coincident crossed pair Separating the mics by around 10 cm tears the theory into shreds, but it sounds a whole lot better. The ORTF system, named for the Office de Radiodiffusion Television Francaise, uses two cardioid microphones spaced at 17 cm angled outwards at 110 degrees, and is simply an extended near-coincident crossed pair. The redeeming feature of the coincident crossed pair is that you can mix the left and right signals into mono and it still sounds fine. Mono, but fine. We call this mono compatibility and it is important in many situations – the majority of radio and television listeners still only have one speaker. The further apart the microphones are spaced, the worse the mono compatibility, although near-coincident and ORTF systems are still usable. Mercury Living Presence was one of the early stereo techniques of the 1950s, used for classical music recordings on the Mercury label. If you imagine trying to figure out how to make a stereo recording when there was no-one around to tell you how to do it, you might work out that one microphone pointing left, another pointing center and a third pointing right might be the way to do it. Record each to its own track on 35mm magnetic film, as used in cinema audio, and there you have it! Nominally omnidirectional microphones were used, but of course the early omni mics did become directional at higher frequencies. Later recordings were made to two-track stereo. These recordings stand up remarkable well today. They may have a little noise and distortion, but the sound is wonderfully clear and alive. The same can be said of the Decca tree, used by the Decca record company. This is not dissimilar from the Mercury Living Presence system but baffles were used between the microphones in some instances to create separation, and additional microphones might be used where necessary, positioned towards the sides of the orchestra. Decca tree Another obvious means of deploying microphones in the early days of stereo was to place three microphones spaced apart at the front of the orchestra, much more distant from each other than in the above systems. If only two microphones are used spaced apart by perhaps as much as two meters or more, what happens on playback is that the sound seems to cluster around the loudspeakers and there is a hole in the middle of the sound image. To prevent this, a centre microphone can be mixed in at a lower level so that the ‘hole’ is filled. There is no theory on earth to explain why this works - being so dissimilar to the human hearing system - but it can work very well. The main drawback is that a recording made in such a way sounds terrible when played in mono. The MS system, as explained previously, uses a cardioid microphone to pick up an all-round mono signal, and a figure-of-eight mic to pick up the difference between left and right in the sound field. The M and S signals can be combined without too much difficulty to provide conventional left and right signals. This is of practical benefit when it is necessary to record a single performer in stereo. With a coincident crossed pair, one microphone would be pointing to the left of the performer, the other would be pointing to the right. It just seems wrong not to point a microphone directly at the performer, and with the MS system you do, getting the best possible sound quality from the mic. It is sometimes proposed as an advantage of MS than it is possible to control the width of the stereo image by adjusting the level of the S signal. This is exactly the same as adjusting the width by turning the mixing console’s panpots for the left and right signals closer to the centre. Therefore it is in reality no advantage at all. Binaural stereo attempts to mimic the human hearing system with a dummy head (sometimes face, shoulders and chest too) with two omnidirectional microphones placed in artificial ears just like a real human head. It works well, but only on headphones. A binaural recording played on speakers doesn’t work because the two channels mix on their way to the listener, spoiling the effect. There have been a number of systems attempting to make binaural recordings work on loudspeakers but none has become popular. __________________________ Îñòàåòñÿ òîëüêî äîáàâèòü, ÷òî coinsided pair - ýòî XY, à spaced omni - íåñîìíåííî AB |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 11:06 |
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Ñìåøíîé òàêîé ìèê íàøåë â ìàãàçèíå, íà ìèíèæäåêå, äëÿ ïîëåâûõ óñëîâèé, 3400 ñòîèò. Åãî êèíîøíèêè õâàëÿò:) |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 11:26 |
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Ìîñêâà
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åñëè òû ïîñìîòðèøü íà åãî ÷àñòîòêó - òî ó òåáÿ îòïàäåò æåëàíèå èñïîëüçîâàòü åãî äëÿ çàïèñè áýíäà :0) 100-17000, ïðè÷åì âàæíåå òî, ÷òî íèæíÿÿ ãðàíèöà - 100. ýòî ðàç. äâà - ýòî òî, ÷òî îí ñ ìàëåíüêèìè ìåìáðàíàìè, à çíà÷èò áóäåò ñëèøêîì òîùèì è äîêóìåíòàëüíûì ïî çâóêó. íå ïîéäåò.. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 12:27 |
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Ìîñêâà
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íó âîò è ñëàâíåíüêî
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Òåìà: Re: Çàïèñü âñåé íðóïïû îäíîâðåìåííî
Âðåìÿ: 20.04.2007 12:41 |
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Ëåíàð
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Àðòåì äàé êàêóþ íèò èíôîðìàöèþ ïðî çàïèñü ðîÿëÿ. Ìíå ñêîðî ïèñàòü è õîòåëîñü ïîëó÷èòü ìàêñèìóì èíôî ïî ýòîìó ïîâîäó(åñëè ñòàëêèâàëñÿ) |
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