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Òåìà: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 28.03.2004 19:31 |
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Victor_gugo
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Âîïðîñ î 24/96.Çà÷¸ì âñ¸ ýòî íóæíî?Âåäü,äîïóñòèì,çàïèñàë ÿ âñ¸ â 24/96,ñâ¸ë,âûâåë â wav ôàéë.Âñ¸ êðóòî.Íî âåäü íà CD åãî íå çàïèõíóòü òàêèì!Íóæíî áóäåò ïåðåñæèìàòü äî 16/48! ÷¸ì ôèøêà,îáúÿñíèòå! |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 29.03.2004 02:29 |
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Ìîñêâà 
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24 - çàïàñ ïî ðàçðÿäíîñòè äëÿ îáðàáîòêè è ïðîìåæóòî÷íûõ ïåðåñ÷åòîâ ãðîìêîñòè, ðàçðåøàþùàÿ ñïîñîáíîñòü ñèñòåìû. 96 - ãàðàíòèðîâàííàÿ øèðîòà ïðîïóñêàíèÿ äî 48 êÃö. Ìíîãèå ïëàãèíû î÷óòèìî ëó÷øå ðàáîòàþò íà 96. ÍÎ! ÷åñòíûå 24 áèòà - ýòî äèíàìè÷åñêèé äèàïàçîí 140 Äá è ìèíèìóì 10k$ çà äâà êàíàëà îöèôðîâêè. Ñìîòðèì â õàð-êè ëþáîé êàðòû - ìàêñèìóì -105 èëè -110. Çíà÷èò îñòàëüíîå - äîðèñîâûâàåòñÿ. Íî åñëè ñâîäèòü â öèôðå - ïèñàòü ëó÷øå â 24 èëè 32fp. 96 êÃö íà âñåõ êàðòàõ áóäóò öèôðîâàòüñÿ õóæå, ÷åì 48 â ñèëó îïðåäåëåííûõ ñõåìîòåõíè÷åñêèõ îñîáåííîñòåé. Åñëè âû ýòîãî íå ñëûøèòå - çíà÷èò âàì íå íà ÷åì ýòî óñëûøàòü. Òàê ÷òî, ãîñïîäà íàêîëåííèêè - ïèøèòå â 32fp/44.100. Ýòî ïðèêàç  Óäà÷.. |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 29.03.2004 09:22 |
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Victor_gugo
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áëèí...à ïîòîì âåäü íóæíî ïåðåãîíÿòü äî 16 bit.êà÷åñòâî òåðÿåòñÿ | |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 01:13 |
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Ìîñêâà
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åñëè áóäåøü íà 16-òè áèòíûé òðåê ïëãèíû íàêðó÷èâàòü - ïðîèãðàåøü áîëüøå. Êðóïíóþ ìåáåëü â ìàëåíüêîé êîìíàòå êîãäà-íèáóäü ïåðåäâèãàë? À åñëè ïåðåâîäèòü â 16 áèò â ñàìîì êîíöå öåïî÷êè, íå çàáûâàÿ âêëþ÷èòü dither - âñå îê. Íèêòî íå æàëîâàëñÿ ïîêà... Êëþ÷åâîå ñëîâî "íèêòî".. |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 01:24 |
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Õîòåëîñü áû ïîïîäðîáíåå íàñ÷¸ò ñõåìîòåõíè÷åñêèõ îñîáåííîñòåé. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 09:01 |
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Ìîñêâà
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ñèëüíî ïîäðîáíåé íå ìîãó - ÿ ëåêöèþ ñëóøàë, à íå ÷èòàë òàì ôèøêà â îáðåçíûõ ôèëüòðàõ ïåðåä ÀÖÏ. |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 09:08 |
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Ìîñêâà
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À âîò êñòàòè íåáîëüøàÿ ëåêöèÿ äëÿ ëþáèòåëåé ïèñàòü â 24/192 Ýòî òàê, ê ñëîâó..  íàøèõ óñëîâèÿõ è öåíîâûõ êàòåãîðèÿõ ýòî âïîëíå îòíîñèòñÿ è ê 96 êÃö. Ñîâåòóþ îçíàêîìèòüñÿ.. ________________________________ _____________ FACTS & CONCLUSIONS REGARDING 192kHz from the 115th AUDIO ENGINEERING SOCIETY CONVENTION - Oct 2003 192KHz sampling = Higher Distortions Tutorial Seminar "All About A/D Converters" Seminar Panel: Dan Lavry - Panel Chairman, President, Lavry Engineering. Designer of state of the art converters David Smith - V.P. Engineering Sony Music Dr. Richard Cabot - founder of Audio Precision, maker of the state of the art audio test gear Robert Adams - principle designer at Analog Devices, inventor with over 20 patents. ---------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS REGARDING 192kHz from that seminar, I. Science, fact, engineering and math tell you the following: 1. Musical instruments don't make sounds at high frequencies requiring 192kHz sampling 2. Microphones can't pick up those high frequencies (bandwidth limitations) 3. Speakers don't produce those frequencies (bandwidth limitations) 4. Humans and animals can not hear those frequencies (96kHz sampling thus 48kHz audio bandwidth) is more than sufficient. II. There is a price to pay when using 192kHz: 1. Loss of accuracy - more distortions. Faster conversion is less accurate 2. File size increase (storage and communication issues) 3. Processing power requirement is x2 compared to 96kHz, x4 compared to 48kHz III. All competent Electronic Engineers understand these facts. They also understand that THERE IS A TRADE-OFF BETWEEN SPEED AND ACCURACY. 1. Industry salesmen are saying that "more dots are better". THIS IS WRONG. Do not confuse "More dots" with "more bits" or "more pixels". A better analogy: pouring water into a cup beyond the rim does not add water to the cup but causes a mess. 2. Higher sample rate than required by the audio bandwidth yields ZERO ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. Sampling theory is NOT based on approximations. The promoters of "The more the better" lack technical depth and sufficient education. 3. More samples than required by the audio bandwidth yield REDUCED ACCURACY in practice. 96KHz sample rate is more than sufficient to contain 100% of the audio. Sampling any faster offers ZERO ADVANTAGE, and SERIOUS DRAWBACKS (see II above). IV. Many people like certain distortions (such as tube sound). One may like the way some 192kHz gear distorts sound, but the FACT remains: if you hear it, the energy resides UNDER 20kHz. One can manufacture such distortions with 96kHz or 48kHz gear. V. Equipment and IC makers must provide transparency , "Waveform out = Waveform in". DELIBERATE ARTISTIC waveform alterations (such as EQ, reverb, tube processing) require minimal distortions. VI. Living with "192kHz sound" is analogous to eating all your meals from a huge, heavy dish containing a significant amount of salt. All food you eat will forever contain that salt. You will never be rid of it. History will look at 192kHz audio sampling as a fad, manufactured to enhance some bottom lines, at the expense of steering a whole industry against quality, precision and efficiency. For other aspects of this presentation please contact AES for their audio/and/or video recording. Look for white paper Jan 2004 on our web site Dan Lavry Lavry Engineering www.lavryengineering.com -- -- Entropy just isn't what it used to be! |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 15:41 |
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Äåëî íå â òîì, ÷òî òàêèõ ÷àñòîò "íå ñëûøíî" è èõ íèêòî "íå âîñïðîèçâîäèò". Äåëî â áîëåå òî÷íîé ïåðåäà÷å ôîðìû âîëíû íà ñðåäíèõ è âûñîêèõ ÷àñòîòàõ. À ïðè öèôðîâîé îáðàáîòêå - áîëüøàÿ òî÷íîñòü. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 00:49 |
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Ìîñêâà
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äà, òóïûå òàì ðåáÿòà. òàêèõ ïðîñòûõ âåùåé íå ïîíèìàþò
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 01:10 |
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Íå-à! Ïðîñòî Ñîíè-ìþçèê íà àïãðåéä ðàñêîøåëèâàòüñÿ íå õî÷åò. À îñòàëüíûå - "çàñëàííûå" êàçà÷êè. |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 09:41 |
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Ìîñêâà
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àïäåéò ÷åãî? êòî - îñòàëüíûå? áððð... |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 23:07 |
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Äà ÿ øó÷ó, òàì â ñïèñêå èíæåíåð ñ Ñîíè-ìþçèê. Êîòîðûå, åñëè âåðèòü ðåêëàìå (èäèîòñêîé, è-íåòîâñêîé), íà Ðîëàíäå ïèøóò.  ÐÑ. Òîæå áðåä, êîíå÷íî... À íàñ÷¸ò 44/96 íàäî áåñåäîâàòü, ñîáðàâøèñü â ñòóäèè, èñïîëüçóÿ øòóê 10 ðàçíûõ ìèêðîôîíîâ, ñ 25 ðàçíûìè À/D, 60 ðàçíûìè ïðåàìïàìè, 12345 ðàçíûìè ìîíèòîðàìè, êîëè÷åñòâî ìîíèòîðíûõ óñèëèòåëåé èñ÷èñëåíèþ íå ïîääà¸òñÿ.... À çà ñòàòüþ - ñïàñèáî, âñ¸ ðàâíî òàêèå âåùè ëè÷íî îáñóæäàòü íàäî. Êñòàòè, ÿ â 96 íå ïèøó.
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 01.04.2004 09:00 |
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Ìîñêâà
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íó âîò è ìèëî
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 02.04.2004 16:05 |
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Âèòàëèé
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Àðòåì Àìàòóíè!!! ß òàê ïîíÿë òû ïîëüçóåøüñÿ CoolEdit? âîïðîñ, êîãäà öèôðóåøü â 16 áèò âêëþ÷àåøü dither, ýòî äëÿ ãëóáèíû çâóêà? Âîîáùå òàì åñòü 3 ïàðàìåòðà, íå ìîæåøü íàïèñàòü êàê îíè ðàáîòàþò. |
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Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 03.04.2004 01:17 |
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Ìîñêâà
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íå ïîëüçîâàëñÿ óæå äàâíî.. âñå, ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ òåîðèè äèçåðèíãà - èíòåðíåò îòêðîå âàì ãëàçà. dither - ýòî ÍÅ äëÿ ãëóáèíû çâóêà... âû óìååòå ïîëüçîâàòüñÿ ïîèñêîâûìè ìàøèíàìè?.. |
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