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Óâàæàåìûå ïîëüçîâàòåëè ôîðóìà, ðàçìåùàéòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, Âàøè ñîîáùåíèÿ â ñîîòâåòñòâèè ñ òåìîé ôîðóìà. Îáúÿâëåíèÿ òèïà êóïëþ-ïðîäàì, ïîèñê ìóçûêàíòîâ áóäóò áåçæàëîñòíî ñòèðàòüñÿ, ïðè ïîâòîðíîì ïîÿâëåíèè ïîäîáíûõ îáúÿâëåíèé íàðóøèòåëü áóäåò îòêëþ÷åí îò ôîðóìà. Óâàæàéòå äðóã äðóãà è äàâàéòå çâó÷àòü õîðîøî. Ìîäåðàòîð.

Àâòîð
Òåìà: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 28.03.2004 19:31 
Victor_gugo



Âîïðîñ î 24/96.Çà÷¸ì âñ¸ ýòî íóæíî?Âåäü,äîïóñòèì,çàïèñàë ÿ âñ¸ â 24/96,ñâ¸ë,âûâåë â
wav ôàéë.Âñ¸ êðóòî.Íî âåäü íà CD åãî íå çàïèõíóòü
òàêèì!Íóæíî áóäåò ïåðåñæèìàòü äî 16/48! ÷¸ì ôèøêà,îáúÿñíèòå!
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 29.03.2004 02:29 
Ìîñêâà


24 - çàïàñ ïî ðàçðÿäíîñòè äëÿ îáðàáîòêè è ïðîìåæóòî÷íûõ ïåðåñ÷åòîâ ãðîìêîñòè, ðàçðåøàþùàÿ ñïîñîáíîñòü ñèñòåìû.

96 - ãàðàíòèðîâàííàÿ øèðîòà ïðîïóñêàíèÿ äî 48 êÃö. Ìíîãèå ïëàãèíû î÷óòèìî ëó÷øå ðàáîòàþò íà 96.

ÍÎ!
÷åñòíûå 24 áèòà - ýòî äèíàìè÷åñêèé äèàïàçîí 140 Äá è ìèíèìóì 10k$ çà äâà êàíàëà îöèôðîâêè. Ñìîòðèì â õàð-êè ëþáîé êàðòû - ìàêñèìóì -105 èëè -110. Çíà÷èò îñòàëüíîå - äîðèñîâûâàåòñÿ. Íî åñëè ñâîäèòü â öèôðå - ïèñàòü ëó÷øå â 24 èëè 32fp.

96 êÃö íà âñåõ êàðòàõ áóäóò öèôðîâàòüñÿ õóæå, ÷åì 48 â ñèëó îïðåäåëåííûõ ñõåìîòåõíè÷åñêèõ îñîáåííîñòåé. Åñëè âû ýòîãî íå ñëûøèòå - çíà÷èò âàì íå íà ÷åì ýòî óñëûøàòü.

Òàê ÷òî, ãîñïîäà íàêîëåííèêè - ïèøèòå â 32fp/44.100. Ýòî ïðèêàç :))

Óäà÷..
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 29.03.2004 09:22 
Victor_gugo



áëèí...à ïîòîì âåäü íóæíî ïåðåãîíÿòü äî 16 bit.êà÷åñòâî òåðÿåòñÿ
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 01:13 
Ìîñêâà


åñëè áóäåøü íà 16-òè áèòíûé òðåê ïëãèíû íàêðó÷èâàòü - ïðîèãðàåøü áîëüøå. Êðóïíóþ ìåáåëü â ìàëåíüêîé êîìíàòå êîãäà-íèáóäü ïåðåäâèãàë? :))
À åñëè ïåðåâîäèòü â 16 áèò â ñàìîì êîíöå öåïî÷êè, íå çàáûâàÿ âêëþ÷èòü dither - âñå îê. Íèêòî íå æàëîâàëñÿ ïîêà... Êëþ÷åâîå ñëîâî "íèêòî"..
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 01:24 



Õîòåëîñü áû ïîïîäðîáíåå íàñ÷¸ò ñõåìîòåõíè÷åñêèõ îñîáåííîñòåé.
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 09:01 
Ìîñêâà


ñèëüíî ïîäðîáíåé íå ìîãó - ÿ ëåêöèþ ñëóøàë, à íå ÷èòàë :))
òàì ôèøêà â îáðåçíûõ ôèëüòðàõ ïåðåä ÀÖÏ.
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 09:08 
Ìîñêâà


À âîò êñòàòè íåáîëüøàÿ ëåêöèÿ äëÿ ëþáèòåëåé ïèñàòü â 24/192 :)))
Ýòî òàê, ê ñëîâó..
 íàøèõ óñëîâèÿõ è öåíîâûõ êàòåãîðèÿõ ýòî âïîëíå îòíîñèòñÿ è ê 96 êÃö. Ñîâåòóþ îçíàêîìèòüñÿ..

________________________________
_____________

FACTS & CONCLUSIONS REGARDING 192kHz from the 115th AUDIO ENGINEERING
SOCIETY
CONVENTION - Oct 2003 192KHz sampling = Higher Distortions
Tutorial Seminar "All About A/D Converters"
Seminar Panel:
Dan Lavry - Panel Chairman, President, Lavry Engineering. Designer of
state of the art converters
David Smith - V.P. Engineering Sony Music
Dr. Richard Cabot - founder of Audio Precision, maker of the state of
the art audio test gear
Robert Adams - principle designer at Analog Devices, inventor with
over 20 patents.
----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS REGARDING 192kHz from that seminar,
I. Science, fact, engineering and math tell you the following:
1. Musical instruments don't make sounds at high frequencies
requiring 192kHz sampling
2. Microphones can't pick up those high frequencies (bandwidth
limitations)
3. Speakers don't produce those frequencies (bandwidth limitations)
4. Humans and animals can not hear those frequencies (96kHz sampling
thus 48kHz audio
bandwidth) is more than sufficient.
II. There is a price to pay when using 192kHz:
1. Loss of accuracy - more distortions. Faster conversion is less
accurate
2. File size increase (storage and communication issues)
3. Processing power requirement is x2 compared to 96kHz, x4 compared to
48kHz
III. All competent Electronic Engineers understand these facts. They
also understand that THERE IS A
TRADE-OFF BETWEEN SPEED AND ACCURACY.
1. Industry salesmen are saying that "more dots are better". THIS IS
WRONG. Do not
confuse "More dots" with "more bits" or "more pixels". A better
analogy: pouring water into a cup beyond
the rim does not add water to the cup but causes a mess.
2. Higher sample rate than required by the audio bandwidth yields
ZERO ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION. Sampling theory is NOT based on approximations. The
promoters of "The more the
better" lack technical depth and sufficient education.
3. More samples than required by the audio bandwidth yield REDUCED
ACCURACY in practice.
96KHz sample rate is more than sufficient to contain 100% of the
audio. Sampling any faster offers
ZERO ADVANTAGE, and SERIOUS DRAWBACKS (see II above).
IV. Many people like certain distortions (such as tube sound). One
may like the way some 192kHz gear
distorts sound, but the FACT remains: if you hear it, the energy
resides UNDER 20kHz. One can
manufacture such distortions with 96kHz or 48kHz gear.
V. Equipment and IC makers must provide transparency , "Waveform out
= Waveform in".
DELIBERATE ARTISTIC waveform alterations (such as EQ, reverb, tube
processing) require minimal
distortions.
VI. Living with "192kHz sound" is analogous to eating all your meals
from a huge, heavy dish containing
a significant amount of salt. All food you eat will forever contain
that salt. You will never be rid of it.
History will look at 192kHz audio sampling as a fad, manufactured to
enhance some bottom lines, at the
expense of steering a whole industry against quality, precision and
efficiency.
For other aspects of this presentation please contact AES for their
audio/and/or video recording.
Look for white paper Jan 2004 on our web site
Dan Lavry
Lavry Engineering www.lavryengineering.com
--
--
Entropy just isn't what it used to be!
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 30.03.2004 15:41 



Äåëî íå â òîì, ÷òî òàêèõ ÷àñòîò "íå ñëûøíî" è èõ íèêòî "íå âîñïðîèçâîäèò". Äåëî â áîëåå òî÷íîé ïåðåäà÷å ôîðìû âîëíû íà ñðåäíèõ è âûñîêèõ ÷àñòîòàõ. À ïðè öèôðîâîé îáðàáîòêå - áîëüøàÿ òî÷íîñòü.
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 00:49 
Ìîñêâà


äà, òóïûå òàì ðåáÿòà.
òàêèõ ïðîñòûõ âåùåé íå ïîíèìàþò :))
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 01:10 



Íå-à! Ïðîñòî Ñîíè-ìþçèê íà àïãðåéä ðàñêîøåëèâàòüñÿ íå õî÷åò. :)
À îñòàëüíûå - "çàñëàííûå" êàçà÷êè.
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 09:41 
Ìîñêâà


àïäåéò ÷åãî?
êòî - îñòàëüíûå?
áððð...
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 31.03.2004 23:07 



Äà ÿ øó÷ó, òàì â ñïèñêå èíæåíåð ñ Ñîíè-ìþçèê. Êîòîðûå, åñëè âåðèòü ðåêëàìå (èäèîòñêîé, è-íåòîâñêîé), íà Ðîëàíäå ïèøóò.  ÐÑ. Òîæå áðåä, êîíå÷íî...
À íàñ÷¸ò 44/96 íàäî áåñåäîâàòü, ñîáðàâøèñü â ñòóäèè, èñïîëüçóÿ øòóê 10 ðàçíûõ ìèêðîôîíîâ, ñ 25 ðàçíûìè À/D, 60 ðàçíûìè ïðåàìïàìè, 12345 ðàçíûìè ìîíèòîðàìè, êîëè÷åñòâî ìîíèòîðíûõ óñèëèòåëåé èñ÷èñëåíèþ íå ïîääà¸òñÿ....
À çà ñòàòüþ - ñïàñèáî, âñ¸ ðàâíî òàêèå âåùè ëè÷íî îáñóæäàòü íàäî. :)
Êñòàòè, ÿ â 96 íå ïèøó. :)
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 01.04.2004 09:00 
Ìîñêâà


íó âîò è ìèëî :))
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 02.04.2004 16:05 
Âèòàëèé



Àðòåì Àìàòóíè!!!
ß òàê ïîíÿë òû ïîëüçóåøüñÿ CoolEdit?
âîïðîñ, êîãäà öèôðóåøü â 16 áèò âêëþ÷àåøü dither, ýòî äëÿ ãëóáèíû çâóêà? Âîîáùå òàì åñòü 3 ïàðàìåòðà, íå ìîæåøü íàïèñàòü êàê îíè ðàáîòàþò.
Àâòîð
Òåìà: Re: Âîïðîñ î 24/96
Âðåìÿ: 03.04.2004 01:17 
Ìîñêâà


íå ïîëüçîâàëñÿ óæå äàâíî..
âñå, ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ òåîðèè äèçåðèíãà - èíòåðíåò îòêðîå âàì ãëàçà. dither - ýòî ÍÅ äëÿ ãëóáèíû çâóêà... âû óìååòå ïîëüçîâàòüñÿ ïîèñêîâûìè ìàøèíàìè?..
 ýòîò ôîðóì ìîãóò ïèñàòü òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûå ïîëüçîâàòåëè!